Tower of London Beefeaters: Harassment of Moira Cameron (PHOTO, VIDEO) – Three Tower of London ceremonial guards, also known as beefeaters, are facing an inquiry for the alleged bullying of a female colleague, tower officials said.
Tower of London authorities said Monday that two of the unidentified male warders were suspended as a result of the bullying allegations regarding the tower’s first female beefeater.
Read more here and see the photo and video.
Could it be because she’s a vegetarian?
Comment by r. d'amato — November 3, 2009 @ 8:02 am
They knew that as soon as they hired this dink that there would be problems, all woman want to due is get into an all male world or organization and start some shit.
Comment by ihatebitches — November 3, 2009 @ 9:21 am
1st a comment to Ihatebitches above, not sure what world you live in but for the past how many decades women have been rising up in the work world and world period and there is NO “man world” or “man organization”, wake up, women dont need men to excel in this life. I’m sure it’s because of ignorant men like yourself that issues like this arise and hit the media with titles including harrasment, because you just can’t accept the truth and reality.
I personally and for all women think this is great .. !! A job that’s been always titled as being a “man job” is being held by a woman, what makes her any less qualified for this position? She’s done her duty of 22yrs of service to her country, that’s more I’m sure for some “men” .. Woman are born with a natural instict to protect, who better to protect some of her countries most prized and valuable belonging then a woman !! YOU GO GIRL !!
Comment by Brwneyez — November 3, 2009 @ 9:32 am
The job is pointless anyhow. Why not put a woman in charge of guarding nothing?
Comment by Tim — November 3, 2009 @ 9:37 am
HERE HERE!!! I agree…where do men think they come from????? A WOMAN….can they bear children? NOT! We are already prepared for these challenges. When will some men give it any thought. They do not learn to keep such comments to themselves and to keep it in their pants. They are clueless. They do not seem to understand that we are the stronger sex and it is because of bullies throughout the centuries that they think they are stronger and smarter. This is a false sense. We have been stronger and just have been creeping upward due to laws and regulations. That makes us smarter!
Nancy B
Cleveland, Oh USA
Comment by Nancy, Cleveland — November 3, 2009 @ 9:43 am
An allegation of this ilk does NOT promote camaraderie; which is an essential attribute for this type of organization. Whether harassment exists or not, nurturing animosity through criminal or civil allegations will have a negative impact that could exist indefinitely. That would not be good for the cause. Maybe the “wrong” type of woman took this critical assignment. A woman with thicker skin may have viewed the men’s actions as jovial, and proceeded to give some of the same back to them; therefore, in part, promoting camaraderie. The men certainly would not have alleged “harassment” I assure you. No law or legal action can make people respect or like one another.
Comment by Jimmy Robinson — November 3, 2009 @ 9:52 am
@ ihatebitches. u are so right. as much as i am for equal opportunity, how many things have been totally thrown amok when women decided to leave their place and enter the man’ role.
*family role- women seem to think that they don’t need men, so any smart man is not gonna stay in a plaec where he is not needed, and stresed the hell out
*workplace- men have always had fun at work, while getting their jobs done. yes some of that fun was a bit unsavory, such as putting pictures of beautiful women on the wal, but once you introduce live, insanely jealous, catty, totally sexually insecure and repgnuant women into the scene, allllll that has to go away
* oh, yeah we cant tak about sex either, withoput it being harrassment- how many men have filed sexual harrassment charges over dumbsh*t i wonder
i find it sad but laughbale that as soon as you alow a woman into these roles, you get spome woman like the one in the citadel, to suddenly complain about how they have to have different standards and the standards are sexist, bc only men can pass them, and all that boohoo-weewee, drag that institution into the dirt, only to quit after they have made a mockery of said institution
here’s a thought for you women. you want equal opportunity, shut up and take it like a man…. oh wait, but you’re NOT because you can bear children
Comment by joe — November 3, 2009 @ 10:03 am
Harassment is harassment. Would you Mr. Robinson have liked it if it was your daughter if in any job she was harassed by her male colleageaus?
Step out of your shoes, and look at it both ways.
You’re a man, so you’d like to harass your female workers treating it like jovial actions. Wake up man, it’s men like you who makes the world go under.
Narrowminded ones.
Comment by Isabel — November 3, 2009 @ 10:06 am
Hey Joe, don’t you think that you are scolding your mother, the one who beared you.
Maybe also your wife bearing your children or your daughters, who may be harassed by their male collegeaus.
Think, before you write. You came from a woman’s vagina.
So be respectful.
Comment by Isabel — November 3, 2009 @ 10:10 am
At first, I was siding with Moira Cameron. Being harassed is aweful. However, after doing a bit of snooping and mulling over the topic, my stance is changed, but only somewhat.
First, when you take a job like that, you have to expect to be the target of static. Men are generally hostile, regardless of if the recipient is male or female. It probably comes from the primal hunter/gatherer role where we had to be tough. Two decades ago, male flight attendants and male nurses were almost automatically marked as homosexual.
Second, whenever you look up a picture of Moira, she’s surrounded by stolid men, facing off to duty while she’s grinning incessantly at the camera. It makes it appear that she doesn’t take her job seriously.
Comment by MrSchism — November 3, 2009 @ 10:21 am
I think that we are all forget 1 important fact in this story. This woman wanted this job knowing that all of her coworkers would be male. That being said males even in a work environment behave differently towards each other. So when this woman took this job she should have braced herself for the harsh reality that this has always been a mans position and that it will take time for her coworkers to accept her as an equal.
I think personally that if women want to enter the male workforce and be paid like a male employee then they should be prepaired to be treated like a male employee. And simply put males are treated completely different then females in the work place. I think this woman needs to suck it up or find a softer job.
Comment by Rob — November 3, 2009 @ 10:22 am
a comment to Ihatebitches…i hate them too, but probably not in the same way you do. women know what a real bitch is and it isn’t one who takes a position in a “man’s job”.
and a comment to joe…i agree men love what women consider to be “low humor”. i grew up with 5 brothers so i know; i’m a welder, so i know; alot of my uncles were construction workers, believe me, i know…lol. i give as good as i get. and when things do get a little too graphic for me, i just shake my head, say “omg you guys”, giggle and walk away. do i know they make comments about my ass out of earshot? of course, that’s what men do. big deal. i think what most women consider harrassment isn’t men being men…it’s men who intentionally make nasty, snotty, evil (insert your own adjective) comments when addressing a woman with the sole purpose of making them feel uncomfortable, put upon, etc…we’ll never know exactly what went on, we can only speculate, but until women learn to accept men’s sexual conversations with good humor and men learn there ARE some things you just don’t say or do around women, this kind of thing will continue to occur…”man’s job” or not.
Comment by marenka — November 3, 2009 @ 10:26 am
It’s become very clear that none of you have a very clear understanding of this at all, however in every comment there is some truth. As I see it from your comments, no one here is open-minded. Tell me this, women, who’s going to be the first of you to lay down the “rise above men!” attitude? What makes you think you have to prove to the men of the world that your better then them? And really, what makes you think for a second that your stronger? I’m really curious about that one.. seems like feminisim to me.. maybe i’m wrong. Gentleman, sure I joke around with woman I work with just like you probably do, but where do you draw the line? It’s not a question of your manliness being questioned or challenged, it’s the women who want something and the question is are you going to allow them to have a chance to get it? Sure I’m all for a woman getting a decent job, but to put out someone else who is more deserving? no way. There are jobs that are better suited towards women, I will agree to that, and by all means, please take them! But seriously, you look at where most of these problems start, a woman will attempt to enter what has from the beginning of time been a mans job. And just like woman have jobs better suited to them, so do men! Stay out of the way when it comes to that stuff, you’ll only hurt yourself or someone else, it’s been proven time and time again.
And men.. please learn to spell before you attempt to argue with women.. from man to man.. it’s “usually” not worth arguing with a woman if you can’t spell check.
With Respect to everyone.
Dave
Comment by Daveh — November 3, 2009 @ 10:33 am
In all honesty I think this woman needs to get a thicker skin. At the risk of sounding like an ass. I just don’t understand why women feel they are equals to men. I think we were created as different from each other as night and day for a reason. Men, to hunt/Gather/build. Women, to birth/nurture/nest. I think if nature or god had intended for females and males to be truly equals then we would all be asexual. But alas we are not. There are some things that women simply do better then men and vice versa. I think women should stick to what they were intended to do by god or nature and so should men.
Comment by Rob — November 3, 2009 @ 10:35 am
I was in London a while ago. I met this female Beefeater. I think she is “thick skinned” enough to handle a good amount of male harrassment. It seems the harrassement must have escalated to an outragous level. As for guarding “nothing”, I take it you have not seen the Crown Jewels. To Ihatebitches…I feel sorry for you. You are missing so much in llife.
Comment by Kathy — November 3, 2009 @ 10:36 am
I’m so sick and tired of WOMEN trying to butt their way in where they’re not wanted. This has been a MALE job for hundreds of years, she had to know she would not be welcome. Why is it every time there is some kind of all male institution or club etc… there is some women trying to force her way in? there are all kinds of female only institutions and clubs that you don’t see men trying to force their way into. If you can’t handle it find another job.
Comment by Tom — November 3, 2009 @ 10:38 am
@Kathy:
Initial meetings can often belie a person’s true feelings. The harassment may have just continued until she couldn’t take it. Very often, it’s not escalation, but consistency that causes someone’s breaking point to be reached.
Comment by MrSchism — November 3, 2009 @ 10:39 am
Nancy B, you are RIGHT! Your father should have keep it in his pants.
Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 10:41 am
As a woman who has served her country, carried a gun and worked and lived among men her entire life Im truely offended by all this Bitches should know their place talk. Although Mrs Cameron may have been too toothsome with the cameras I would surely hope that any officer appointed by the government would know her job well enough to perform it properly (of course Im an american so possibly weve got this whole women in the workplace thing down a little better. I blame the fact that we have oodles and oodles of lawyers.) In the military your always going to get asses who are going to harass you simply because you have a vagina and are not equipped with highly exposed and sensative genitals (something I personally would have made great use of assaulting in her position) Mrs Cameron did not ask to be harrased any more than a woman is “asking for it” by wearing a short skirt. If these boys were joking around like boys will then she might just be too sensetive but if they were going out of their way to make her uncomfortable and in effect punishing her for not having aforementioned dangly bits then they should lose their jobs. Those are not the kind of people that should be in any position of respect since they certainly arent the kind of people who deserve it. If they were harassing her because of race this wouldnt be a debate they would be FIRED. They should be pumping my gas and cleaning my pool.
Comment by Kristine — November 3, 2009 @ 10:43 am
Tis a true shame.
Ms. Cameron, and the other fine women and men of Britian’s armed forces, work to serve and protect the qualities of their country. Freedom, justice, equal rights and protections regardless of race, religion or sex. Unfortunately some items can be fought for when it is for someone else, but when it threatens your own back yard a different stance is adopted. That seems the case of some of the guards.
Do the other guards recall they are guarding the home of their monarchy currently ‘ruled’ by a Queen. Ms. Margaret Thatcher, a notable Prime Minister of recent past, was a women. Ms. Thatcher and possibly Queen Elizabeth’s first female predecessor (sorry, I’m a yank and I can’t name here with certain but was it also Elizabeth?), the first to take title as Queen of England, may have taken some grief for their roles, and I’m sure if they did there were a few balls broken to ensure their positions were respected as the rules and law of the land dictate. Hopefully one day it will be considered a natural law commonly understood.
If significant harrassment occured, punish the offenders and break the balls. If it was mindless harrassment that all new Beefeaters take, I don’t like it but it comes with the territory. Brace yourself and hold tight Ms. Cameron.
Quote the Raven, “Nevermore.”
Comment by The Raven — November 3, 2009 @ 10:45 am
Any woman that has served in a military format as long as she has, through her life experiences was and is fully aware that there would be repercussions upon entering into this arena.
She is nor was ignorant of the potential confrontation that would transpire,
there-for she should take it on the chin like any other new recruit would have to or
this person should have excused them self from this opportunity all together.
This person man or woman has decided to become an opportunist for ones own self – centered objectives, in this case it appears the national lime light.
It also appears that this person has no concern other then succeeding in this motive in conjunction to the expense of this person’s fellow comrades……
Bulwinkle
Comment by Bulwinkle — November 3, 2009 @ 10:47 am
Upon forther review this 44 yr old woman has been a “beefeater” since 2007 I dont think that qualifies her as a new recruit. I think this Gel has been in the military long enough to know what constitutes true harassment seeing as how she had to be a veteran of 22 yrs to achieve her position.
Comment by Kristine — November 3, 2009 @ 10:54 am
you do know that the army still has jobs that women cant do right? and most women cant do the hard labor jobs that men do. its nature thats just how it is. im not against women in the workplace but i am against it when they really cant do the job.And employers are afraid to fire them in fear of a lawsuit so men are stuck doing what they cant do along with our own work and THAT is Bullshit!
Comment by grnboy — November 3, 2009 @ 10:55 am
If this female thinks she’s got a set as big as any man then she needs to bend
over, grab a handful, suck’em up and quit crying. If not, she needs to take a hike!
Comment by Dustin — November 3, 2009 @ 10:58 am
TO GRNBOY-
Thats why we get paid more than women! LOL
Comment by mjbh35 — November 3, 2009 @ 10:58 am
If you choose to claim that women are smarter than men, you’ll have to back it up with at least one good example. Not one single example of a woman’s prowess exist in history.
Women took the back seat because men thought of, created/designed/built all of ‘man’s’
greatest accomplishments. Should you doubt this…from the house you live in, the water you drink, the car you drive & the roadway/highway to get you there, the phone (old or new, local or intercontinental, mobile or landline), the toilet you flush are all creations from a man’s mind, not from the muscle in his arm. So the next time you want to slam a man, find a big chair (built by a man) and stand up tall and proud and yell to the world all YOU have accomplished and how brilliantly smart you are. By the way, this neat little invention you are using to read this, also came from the mind of a ‘man’. Have a great day.
Comment by R Bradley — November 3, 2009 @ 11:04 am
While I believe that women belong and are welcomed in almost all workplace situations, there are places that tradition requires a male presence. The workplace has at times become a little to politically correct for my taste most of the time with people claiming that simple joking around suddenly crosses the line because somebody has their sensitivies crossed. People have become far too sensitive and litigious in this society. Yes there are people (myself included) who cross the line from time to time and an apology is usually all that is needed but some people get vindictive with the whole thing and start their own personal cursade to be marked as a victim. When a woman (or man for that matter) decides to break the mold and move to a field that is traditionally marked for the opposite sex they better expect a certain amount of hazing to come with the territory.
We all need to get a little thicker hide and roll with the punches and quit crying about bruised feelings.
Comment by Andrew — November 3, 2009 @ 11:06 am
Really? What job can’t I do? As a police officer I train my hardest to make sure Im stronger faster and better than anyone I come across and I get the respect I deserve because I demand it. Im no hulking she-beast and if you saw me in my street clothes youd think I was a stepford wife. I dont think anyone should worka job where they cannot meet the physical requirements necessary. I have worked as a dockworker in the harbor, roofing in Miami, I even transported beer for Bush breweries one summer and Ill tell you that was a mofo. I did it simply because I was capable of doing it and I did it well. Oh and get this I weigh 125lbs.
I will agree that most women dont do what I do. I personally believe that it’s not that they cannot its that it simply easier not to because people dont expect it of you. But then again most men I know couldnt do most of what I do for the same reason.
This womans a glorified tour guide. My mom could do her job.
Comment by Kristine — November 3, 2009 @ 11:12 am
Who cares……….. suspend or fire the people who did the harrassing. People make too big of a deal on topic of “war of the sexes”. Women are great and if they want a job they should persue it only if they can meet and maintain standards of performance.
Comment by Mr. C — November 3, 2009 @ 11:19 am
Hey Joe,
YOU would be insanely jealous, catty, and totally sexually insecure if us women constantly obessed with images of “beef” BIGGER than yours
Comment by Marie — November 3, 2009 @ 11:54 am
Really I think 80% of you are talking out of your ass. This woman yes I agree is in uncharted territories that I am not sure she should have ever entered, but the fact at hand is that she has been doing this job since 2007 so obviously she is doing something right. She is not a new recruit so she does not deserve any type of “the new guy” treatment. So really it comes down to stupid men (like half of you that have left commets) just being assholes. I work with nothing but men and belive me I get to hear and take alot of crap. There is a difference though between people giving you s@#t and people taking to a whole other level. You all have no idea what this woman has gone through, so really who are you to judge.
Comment by Christy — November 3, 2009 @ 11:59 am
Plus she had to be pretty bad ass at what she has done in her 22 years of service for them even to break the tradition of a position always held by men. So I think she deserves some respect for that.
Comment by Christy — November 3, 2009 @ 12:02 pm
@marie.. where have you been? we men are always being judged on size, and our sexual prowess but you dont see straight men being insanely catty jealous and sexually insecure… ya might want to stop being that insane, catty, jealous, sexually insecure woman before you come at me, i hear the women talk, my love.
also to the nitwit who said i was scolding my mother… drink some tea and read my post again. men cannot bear children, women can. men cannot use sex as a barter system, women can. you need to know that everyone has a role, and a lane. its only when you come out of your lane, do you run the greatest risk of crashing
Comment by joe — November 3, 2009 @ 12:06 pm
In Reference to post #5, “Nancy B. of Cleveland, Oh USA”.
What is it with the phrase “A WOMAN….can they bear children?” I am a male and a Biologist. From a scientifically and biological standpoint, male mammals for the most part, cannot have or carry children. This is almost impossible. It is not a choice. Furthermore, it is not a matter of strength. Had God or evolution chosen men to have children women would never know any different. In my opinion, your opening comment is a fruitless way to commence an educated argument. However, I do agree that women are just as much capable (as men) to do most jobs if not all of them. Additionally, this sort of discrimination works both ways. We must realize that there are professions that are dominated by both males and by females. Take the nursing profession for example. A male nurse and close friend of mine have been harassed countless times on his job. But his experiences have not led him to be on the front page of the New York Times or some tabloid magazine. In other words, he is not trying to change the nature of the profession by interpreting his harassment experiences as a need to make nursing an all male profession. Lastly, I am proud of this woman’s accomplishments. If she feels that she has been violated then the law states that she has the right not to be. This goes for all other women as well as for all men.
London
Windsor, CT
Comment by London — November 3, 2009 @ 12:07 pm
This is humanity at its best. There is no better or stronger sex and untill pple realize that we will be stuck in a world of double standards. each sex socializes in there own way hence the girls or guys night out. This same problem exists for all the issues today such as gay or color. We can’t seem to let pple live with how they are because we as a whole have control issues.
Comment by Morgan — November 3, 2009 @ 12:08 pm
My problem is why does anyone fight like hell to get into a job and position and then as soon as they get it want to change it.
People try and find excuses for there own shortcommings or issues in everything around them.
You want to join an orginization go for it, dont expect them to change for you. You should take a hard look at yourself and think do I change or do I belong?
Comment by Sean — November 3, 2009 @ 12:12 pm
Women act on emotions while men have a nack for using logic. Logic seems to work better than emotions in the work place. If women want to act like a man (do they’re jobs, etc.) they should expect to be treated likea man. Grow up women and stop trying to rock the boat.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 12:12 pm
I am a female also working in what was traditionally considered a *Man’s* job. I am a security guard for the Texas Dept of Criminal Justice. Not just any prison, but a supermax security, in the High Security Wing where all the *Bad Boys* are. Administrative Segregation. Yes, the males in my dept make all sorts of crude sexual jokes, mostly they keep it amongst themselves but inevitably some females such as myself are present when they are telling such stories. I just do as a previous poster said, shake my head, sorta laugh, and move on. Now whether or not this particular charge of harrasment involves such language directed AT Cameron is another matter. Were I to think that the males telling their male stories were directing them at me to make me feel uncomfortable, you bet I would be on it in a heartbeat. Mostly it is just their male bonding, nothing more.
Comment by Angela — November 3, 2009 @ 12:13 pm
I really pity you men out there for your raging insecurity that makes you act like spoiled children when a competent woman comes along. I met this lovely lady when she was on a goodwill visit to the U.S. She’s smart, she classy and she clearly has it all together. She is an outstanding example of what the Beefeaters should be. If the men on her job are so frighted by her presence (and don’t for a minute think that it’s anything else but) then it is THEY and not she who should get their act together to meet her standard or else be replaced. As for the pathetic, mysoginistic fools who have used this forum as a place to air the the foul confusion in their head, wake up boys. The ladies can do anything you can do, can do it better, faster, neater and with much more cooperation and far less noise. Get help, get therapy. get whatever you need, but learn to deal because we’re not going away.
Comment by DJ — November 3, 2009 @ 12:16 pm
hey DJ, if the woman were so “competent”, then we wouldnt have different standards for men and women when it comes to physical requirements for the job. if women were so “competent” then the worklpace would not be forced to change when a woman “comes along”.
if its equality you want, live fight fart and die by the same rules… thats equal opportunity.
Comment by joe — November 3, 2009 @ 12:22 pm
This comment is for “Joe” and Ihatebitches..You guys must have had a terrible upbringing and absolutely no realtionship with your mother. That is sad. Without women in your life, you would have no life. Women make the world go round, you men just follow and learn. Except for you two. Lord help you both!
Comment by Lisa — November 3, 2009 @ 12:25 pm
I agree with the male bonding statment by Angela. I work and have worked in office work envirements for years and I see the same thing no matter where I have worked..most of the office staff is male while just a couple of the staff are female. The males always seem to get along fine. We work well together, laugh together and just have fun. ( and no the converstaion is usually not sexualy exsplicit) Now, for some reason at all these places the couple of women we have cause problems and its uasually hormons, politics, etc. My question to all is this… Why can’t the women just get along and do they’re work and go home. The women usually have problems with other women and not the men, but it’s very disruptive. From my standpoint its not that the women always have problems with they’re male counterparts but just have issues and cuase problems period. (politics, etc.) Furthermore, it seems that when you bring women into the picture things just go to crap. Poeple stop talking to each other for months at a time, etc. Women seem to bring tention into the picture.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
I don’t have a problem with a woman doing a “mans” job. As long as she does it in its entirety. Not the “I can’t lift that…Its too heavy”. I had to deal with that in the Marine Corps!
Comment by Mike — November 3, 2009 @ 12:33 pm
I agree with Mike. Well stated.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 12:37 pm
I don’t know about Britain but American was built on Freedom! Freedom to persue your dreams what ever they are. Here is something to think about however: Why do we have men and women’s bathrooms? Why not segregate further and have separate bathrooms for Gays and Lesbians? Perhaps another bathroom for Hermaphidites and yet another for transsexuals. Hell by the time you locate the correct bathroom it will be too late!
Comment by Earl — November 3, 2009 @ 12:49 pm
Earl–thats funny. Thanks for adding some fun.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 12:52 pm
To M. Cameron~
Here here…kudos to you. Keep your chin up girl. There are some men that will always think that a woman should not work in a male oriented line of work. That is why this country is the way it is. Women work on feelings and Men work on whatever. Ha! Think again. I too work in a male dominated field. I know my work ethics are higher. I chose not to lower my standards, such as the remainder of us choose as well. Pretty obvious that the harrassing “Beefeaters” feel intimidated wouldn’t you say??? They need to wipe their noses and keep moving and quite micro~managing on issues that don’t mean a hill of beans.
Comment by 2market — November 3, 2009 @ 1:00 pm
Has a women that works has a Armed guard with all men, it can be rough in the beginning working with men.. I don’t understand why “men” put some ownership in jobs.. They right away think (a women can’t do this)! It makes it hard on a us because she has to work even harder to prove that it is pros able that a women can do any job she wants to do.. When is men going to except this fact..
Not are we able to do any kind of job a man can do but we have 1 up on them that they can never top.. So for the men out there “get over it”!!!! and let us do are jobs and stop blaming us when you guys get caught doing something total wrong.. this is not the “old days” anymore.. not to mention we where tough back then too, Had to be none of you men ever went to jail for abuse until we started owning are own guns ..
Mary.
Comment by Mary — November 3, 2009 @ 1:00 pm
I guess the “one up on on them that they can never top” is between your legs? Politics, betwwen your legs, and emotions… Men usually don’t stoop that low. Women stab in the back too.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 1:14 pm
Its seems that many sides of the argument have been covered. No matter what I say people will stick to their own opinion and they’re welcome to it.
However, I am irked that Comment #26 R Bradley seems to credit men for everything in the world. As an engineer this was one of the most obsurd comments that denies fact. Slim possibility though it may be that Bradley will read this, here are some things that are true and not opinion. These are just a few examples and the number of women holding patents is rapidly going up. You can just as well with a little searching find many instances in history and the present where women are in combat. Men and women should be equally given due for their place in the world whether it be in traditional roles or not.
1843 Ada Augusta Lovelace, helped develop an early computer which is the forerunner for our modern technology.
1903 Marie Curie was the first female recipient of a Nobel Prize, for the discovery of radioactive elements. This led to the invention of x-rays widely used in the medical field.
1952 Grace Hopper is credited with devising the first compiler, a program that translates instructions for a computer from English to machine language.
1965 Stephanie Kwolek invented a widely used material called Kevlar. Kelvar has multiple uses including aircraft construction and protective gear used by military forces. Her name appears on 16 patents; she is sole patent holder on seven.
Comment by andyrd — November 3, 2009 @ 1:14 pm
BS that women or anybody should have to tolerate any harrassment! This is suppossed to be a position of a certain level of honor, service and professionalism. These morons are degrading and dishonoring themselves and the position they hold by acting like childish, mindless cavemen!
Any MALE in a job or position who feels so threatened by a FEMALE working in that same capacity is NOt much of a MAN and probably not worthy of the position he holds. Instead, he should be MAN enough to simply SHUT THE F UP, do their job to the best of his ability and perhaps kick it up a
notch if he’s so afraid he’s going to be outdone by a FEMALE.
People are so ignorant to always judge a book by it’s cover. But knowing this, I use it to my advantage. I may look like a cover model (according to some) and I’m not a “HULKING SHE’WOMAN” either but, can get down and dirty when I need to (because I CHOOSE TO) and have generally done better in positions where I have been the only female (as I am currently), and
any man who tries to give me any sort of shit, soon learns why that is NOT such a good idea.
Not going into my background or training but, I have always done better in a mostly male environment as well, most of my closest friends have been male. I am more aggressive by nature so perhaps that’s why most females, don’t usually get me.
Mental strength always outdoes Brute strength. However, I make sure I exercise and keep both in top shape. Weapon or no weapon, I have to be ready to kiss a$$ whenever, wherever…
My favorite is the look on a guy’s face when I put them in their place (after my boot up their ying yang)! Many cry like little bitches… LMAO
I agree with Raven on generally most points:
“Ms. Cameron, and the other fine women and men of Britian’s armed forces, work to serve and protect the qualities of their country. Freedom, justice, equal rights and protections regardless of race, religion or sex. Unfortunately some items can be fought for when it is for someone else, but when it threatens your own back yard a different stance is adopted. That seems the case of some of the guards.
Do the other guards recall they are guarding the home of their monarchy currently ‘ruled’ by a Queen. Ms. Margaret Thatcher, a notable Prime Minister of recent past, IS a woman. Ms. Thatcher and possibly Queen Elizabeth’s first female predecessor (sorry, I’m a yank and I can’t name here with certain but was it also Elizabeth?), the first to take title as Queen of England, may have taken some grief for their roles, and I’m sure if they did there were a few balls broken to ensure their positions were respected as the rules and law of the land dictate. Hopefully one day it will be considered a natural law commonly understood.
If significant harrassment occured, punish the offenders and break the balls. If it was mindless harrassment that all new Beefeaters take..”, -Brace yourself and hold tight Ms. Cameron.”
Rob- I’m not cut out to be a “baby making machine” (no offense to females who are or choose to be- good for them)! I hunt, gather and take out the trash (metaphorically speaking). That is MY nature and always have been.
So, the hell with anybody that thinks they can tell me what to do with my OWN damn life! I make that choice. I don’t allow anybody else to do it for me.
Tom- Hey dickwad! Men have for centuries been everywhere women DON’T want them so deal with it!
If you had any balls, I’d joyfully break them…
Who the f* do you (or AHoles like you, think you are to decide what anybody should or shouldn’t do with their own damn life??
Kristine- Props to you sister! You may not need it but, I stand side by side with you.
Ihatebitches- I agree, I hate bitches too. But not all females are bitches, some are MALE. I have worked in some of the most hostile environments and the top have usually been (for me), where the majority was female.
Perhaps of my physical appearance, they too felt threatened…? That being said, if any dumb ass guy thought they could harrass me or send some BS my way, then be prepared for me NOT to take it and throw it back harder to get the point across.
I don’t have to tolerate any BS from anybody, whether it be coming from males or females.
Comment by SG — November 3, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
BS that women or anybody should have to tolerate any harrassment! This is suppossed to be a position of a certain level of honor, service and professionalism. These morons are degrading and dishonoring themselves and the position they hold by acting like childish, mindless cavemen!
Any MALE in a job or position who feels so threatened by a FEMALE working in that same capacity is NOt much of a MAN and probably not worthy of the position he holds. Instead, he should be MAN enough to simply SHUT THE F UP, do their job to the best of his ability and perhaps kick it up a
notch if he’s so afraid he’s going to be outdone by a FEMALE.
People are so ignorant to always judge a book by it’s cover. But knowing this, I use it to my advantage. I may look like a cover model (according to some) and I’m not a “HULKING SHE’WOMAN” either but, can get down and dirty when I need to (because I CHOOSE TO) and have generally done better in positions where I have been the only female (as I am currently), and
any man who tries to give me any sort of shit, soon learns why that is NOT such a good idea.
Not going into my background or training but, I have always done better in a mostly male environment as well, most of my closest friends have been male. I am more aggressive by nature so perhaps that’s why most females, don’t usually get me.
Mental strength always outdoes Brute strength. However, I make sure I exercise and keep both in top shape. Weapon or no weapon, I have to be ready to kick a$$ whenever, wherever…
My favorite is the look on a guy’s face when I put them in their place (after my boot up their ying yang)! Many cry like little bitches… LMAO
I agree with Raven on generally most points:
“Ms. Cameron, and the other fine women and men of Britian’s armed forces, work to serve and protect the qualities of their country. Freedom, justice, equal rights and protections regardless of race, religion or sex. Unfortunately some items can be fought for when it is for someone else, but when it threatens your own back yard a different stance is adopted. That seems the case of some of the guards.
Do the other guards recall they are guarding the home of their monarchy currently ‘ruled’ by a Queen. Ms. Margaret Thatcher, a notable Prime Minister of recent past, IS a woman. Ms. Thatcher and possibly Queen Elizabeth’s first female predecessor (sorry, I’m a yank and I can’t name here with certain but was it also Elizabeth?), the first to take title as Queen of England, may have taken some grief for their roles, and I’m sure if they did there were a few balls broken to ensure their positions were respected as the rules and law of the land dictate. Hopefully one day it will be considered a natural law commonly understood.
If significant harrassment occured, punish the offenders and break the balls. If it was mindless harrassment that all new Beefeaters take..”, -Brace yourself and hold tight Ms. Cameron.”
Rob- I’m not cut out to be a “baby making machine” (no offense to females who are or choose to be- good for them)! I hunt, gather and take out the trash (metaphorically speaking). That is MY nature and always have been.
So, the hell with anybody that thinks they can tell me what to do with my OWN damn life! I make that choice. I don’t allow anybody else to do it for me.
Tom- Hey dickwad! Men have for centuries been everywhere women DON’T want them so deal with it!
If you had any balls, I’d joyfully break them…
Who the f* do you (or AHoles like you, think you are to decide what anybody should or shouldn’t do with their own damn life??
Kristine- Props to you sister! You may not need it but, I stand side by side with you.
Ihatebitches- I agree, I hate bitches too. But not all females are bitches, some are MALE. I have worked in some of the most hostile environments and the top have usually been (for me), where the majority was female.
Perhaps of my physical appearance, they too felt threatened…? That being said, if any dumb ass guy thought they could harrass me or send some BS my way, then be prepared for me NOT to take it and throw it back harder to get the point across.
I don’t have to tolerate any BS from anybody, whether it be coming from males or females.
Comment by SG — November 3, 2009 @ 1:18 pm
Your right Mary its not the old days but women have the same issues with men having childrens rights and stay at home dads. The thought is they cant do it as well but many can do it better. The old way of thinking is that the man brings home the bacon and the mother is a housewife. When will women and nations realize that men are great caregivers to their own children and should be equal in that right, or is that a woman thing?
Comment by James — November 3, 2009 @ 1:20 pm
Who started determining what “jobs” are mens jobs and what are womens? Is there a manual somewhere universally accepted that states w/out exception which jobs are for humans w/ a penis and extra upper body strength ONLY; while some jobs are for humans w/protrudent mammories and nurturing dispositions ONLY? Males and Females were created differently by divine design. Who do we think we are to determine that one of these designs is inferior to the other? Why are the differences always used as evidence of lack of suitablility while similarities are ignored?
Now….w/out a doubt, as far as I’m concered….the reason woman are “out there taking mens jobs” is they have to eat and provide for their families to the best of their God given and drive attained abilites. Just as men do.
It’s not up to a coworker(s) who doesn’t like you because you are female or male, too young, too old, too dark complected, too light complected, too religious, not religious enough, not hetrosexual, not homosexual, not tall, not short, not handsome, not pretty…(Gee, sadly, couldn’t I just go on and on?) to decide YOU don’t deserve a job you are doing well.
Yes, men can be idiots and woman can be moody; men can be moody and woman can be idiots. Whoever choses; male or female, to do harm to another in the work place thereby interfering w/a person’s right and ability to earn their paycheck as you earn yours IS A MEAN SPIRITED EXAMPLE OF INFERIORITY.
Comment by Yuma — November 3, 2009 @ 1:32 pm
This is for all women. It’s well known that women can do a mans job, within physical limits, but for you all to say that you can do it better, for you all to say that your superior….Wake up! Speek of equality not superiority. Maybe then we can all get along.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 1:33 pm
YUMA. Well said.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 1:35 pm
very well said!
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 1:35 pm
In any country, when one (race, religion, sex, etc.) says to another that they are better than you, don’t you tend to get a little frazeled, hurt, pissed? Than stop the better than thou and get along. Someone please create a cheep, safe rocket to Mars and get me there quick. Human nature is just to wicked, narcisistic, and down right cruel for our own good.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 1:39 pm
I completely agree with Dave(comment 13) ! I believe that everyone in this world has a role to play! Some jobs just simply aren’t made for women, and in the same turn, some are NOT made for men! Accept your limitations, and embrace the positives of your gender! I really don’t see any point
Comment by Michelle — November 3, 2009 @ 1:49 pm
yayyy!@michelle! along with the limitations, people need to accept the strengths of their genders, and stop engaging in d!ck or breast envy! accept you role and play your position, both male and female, and everyone willbe better off!
Comment by joe — November 3, 2009 @ 1:53 pm
Look first this whole issue isnt to do with being a woman or a man. Like most issues of late it all about fame and money.
If we didnt have issues like race, sex color, etc alot of people and groups would be out of jobs and famous people wouldnr be known at all.
Allot of people make alot of money and power over these issues, and they keep the issues hot so to further position..
This not to say that these situations dont happen they do.
Here are some facts that get over looked. Females are the only ones God created to give birth and populate the earth. Women have left the homes, some because they had to some because being a mother wasnt appealing. The results are , higher crome rates, more divorces, and a huge lack of family unity. Children raising themselves. Motherhood is a thankless, mondane career and one only a Women can do. That is not to say they cant have a career outside the family or they should all stay home. But God made them a woman and part of that is to be a mother. Are women better then men, well is red better then blue.
As for equal we are all equal, some are good at some things some are better at others, gender does come to play here to a small part, but the larger part should be the ability of each person no matter what gender. My mother raised 5 children and went to schoo; full time and then worked, a hard life, she made sure she was there for us kids not because she had to or because it was her life long dream, she did it because she loved us. Motherhood should be honored and not forgotten.
Comment by kevin blanton — November 3, 2009 @ 1:58 pm
when a 125 pound lass can haul my 185lb ass for a hundred yards dead weight…when any one yells Medic I still own that it is
mine I own this
Comment by when a 125 pound girl can do haul my 185poud ass for a hundred yards ... — November 3, 2009 @ 2:03 pm
Mens job/woman’s job, who cares?
Beefeaters, in practice, act as tour guides and are a tourist attraction in their own right. Maybe the guys should look in the mirror and wonder if they are doing a woman’s job instead of the other way around.
I say, let the velcro puller have the job, but she should be able to put up with the jokes and any hazing that goes along with it. This story is a microcosm of what is wrong in our litigious society. Things don’t go your way, just sue someone. That’ll make it all better.
Comment by Scott — November 3, 2009 @ 2:04 pm
female officers shoot first because they don’t want to hit the wall
Comment by when a 125 pound girl can do haul my 185poud ass for a hundred yards ... — November 3, 2009 @ 2:10 pm
Joe, Michelle, and Ihatebitches:
You all deserve to die. I would pay top dollar to see all three of you brutally raped, sodomized and tortured merely based on the lack of integrity and callousness of your words. What kind of pathetic wastes of life are you people? What total lack of potential is inherent in your existence? People….men and women alike, are capable of so many things. Gender has no place in it. Clearly you ignorant slatherasses haven’t met yours.
I’ve known women who have defended their children, their families, and friends against the most horrid situations imaginable. That would’ve been deemed a “man’s job”. I’ve seen these same women decimate the men who were intending to harm them, thinking that they were weak and frail, only to run away from these “weak women”.
Women that cracked ribs, broke sternums, and popped shoulders out of place.
That being said, I’ve seen men, men left with no wives, no semblance of female care, left to fend for 6 children and a full-time job. Instead of whining about what was a “womans job”, they took care of their own, left the job to tend acres of farmland, and, WITH THEIR OWN BARE HANDS made something out of nothing. Those kids are now lawyers, doctors, teachers. And they don’t whine about what was a “woman’s job” or a “man’s job”
You’re all ignorant, hapless, worthless wastes of life. You clearly will never be anything. You, and people like yourself are the reason the the human race cannot advance beyond these idiotic “gender roles”. You are scum. Plain and simple.
Comment by Hopeyoualldie — November 3, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
I will ask only this, who is your king of England or shall i say who is the Queen of England and the only true ruler? It has always been a woman. What is your problem if the beef eater is a woman? Your queen and ruler is a WOMAN!!
Unbelievably pathetic you all all
Comment by Rose — November 3, 2009 @ 2:19 pm
Rose — How uninsightful your comments are. The queen doesn’t “rule” anything. The royals are a figure head and the queen merely endorses what the government(Prime Minister and Parliament) has already decided. They are the true rulers.
I suggest coming up an educated argument next time, as it might help your cause.
Comment by Scott — November 3, 2009 @ 2:33 pm
The men are unidentified… She’s a liar, and this whole stories bullsh*t
Comment by TheTruth — November 3, 2009 @ 2:35 pm
What about tradition. Who cares if some dude is a nurse or some gal can bench 350 lbs. The problem I see is a break in tradition. I understand that times are changing and many gender specific roles are being obscured but tradition is supposed to be timeless. It is a break in tradition that initiated the harassment (I’m not saying it is okay or even right). What is the harm in having it go back to the way it was. It is not harmful in any way as far as I can tell. Maybe I’m wrong but I just see it a little different than some.
Comment by EW — November 3, 2009 @ 2:38 pm
EW:
These same “traditions” you want to cling to are the same ones that keep us from progessing onto something better. Traditions are merely limitations which we impose upon ourselves. Grow up and quit clinging to the past.
Comment by Hopeyoualldie — November 3, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
It’s like this; ever since the 1920s some women, mostly dikes, have been trying to prove that they can do what a man can do. The only thing they have truely succeeded in doing is causing a tear in the fabric of society. You know what feminists, guys bully guys in the locker room, so the mere fact that this femme is whinning is that she is a female. If one of these guys bullied one of his fellow beefeaters, the other guys would tell him th “man up”. If I were a beefeater, and I didn’t like what my co-worker Johnny Thomas was saying, I’d tell him to keep is bloody pie-hole shut unless he likes the taste of a knuckle sandwich. Of course, with a sissy woman in this position, I have to hear about her whiny ass in the news! Men and Women are different, and this should be recognized as a good thing. It’s been a long time since I’ve held the door for a “lady” because they are too few and far between these days.
Comment by EatTheBeef — November 3, 2009 @ 2:54 pm
Hopeyoualldie:
That something better that you want to progress into will never happen because the role of a beefeater is gender specific. Every man has had to quiet himself and back down from the constant nagging and whiny democracy that woman’s liberation has brought to the work force. If a woman honestly wants a job, she must do the job. No breaks, no lee-way, no loopholes or other nonsensical rules made for no other reason than to make the job easier for woman. Because without all that extra bullshit you bring to the work force, men could of got the job done twice as fast.
Comment by TheTruth — November 3, 2009 @ 3:04 pm
Some notable women inventors. Chauvinists are encouraged to research the contributions made by the women on this short, not all-inclusive list in an effort to broaden their tiny minds. I believe the list would be longer, but until just recently in our history, women were taught to stnd behind their men and let them take credit for their ideas. Hooray for progress.
Randi Altschul
Virgie Ammons
Betsy Ancker-Johnson
Mary Anderson
Virginia Apgar
Barbara Askins
Patricia E. Bath
Miriam E. Benjamin
Patricia Billings
Katherine Blodgett
Bessie Blount
Sarah Boone
Rachel Fuller Brown
Josephine Garis Cochran
Martha J. Coston
Dianne Croteau
Marie Curie
Marion Donovan
Gertrude Belle Elion
Edith Flanigen
Helen Free
Sally Fox
Frances Gabe
Lillian Gilbreth
Sarah E. Goode
Bette Nesmith Graham
Temple Grandin
KK Gregory
Ruth Handler
Joycelyn Harrison
Elizabeth Lee Hazen
Beulah Henry
Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin
Krisztina Holly
Erna Schneider Hoover
Grace HoppeI, J, k
Mary Phelps Jacob
Amanda Theodosia Jones
Marjorie Stewart Joyner
Anna Keichline
Mary Kies
Gabriele Knecht
Margaret Knight
Stephanie Louise Kwolek
Hedy Lamarr
Ada Lovelace
Sybilla Masters
Ann Moore
Krysta Morlan
Lyda Newman
Julie Newmar
Ellen Ochoa
Alice H Parker
Betty Rozier
Valerie Thomas
Ann Tsukamoto
Harriet Tubman
Lisa Vallino
Madame Walker
Mary Walton
Carol Wior
Comment by Brenda D — November 3, 2009 @ 3:08 pm
All the men commenting on this forum are BITCHES
Comment by Brenda T — November 3, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
Obviously those words could’ve only come from the mind of pure, unadulterated trash, similar to the trash that pollutes the entire populace. Yes, you are such refuse. This mindset is not just limited to brainless scum such as yourself. Not just to impudent men or women, but our whole pathetic society.
Isn’t it obvious by now? Stop making stupid boundaries based on gender. It’s a simple concept. Just by basing your argument off of gender, you’ve made the meaning of it null and void. Get over it. Perhaps then you’ll quit tripping over your own balls, lest some “women’s lib” character comes along a lops them off. Not that you have much to show for testes anyway, hiding behind male machismo ilk.
Comment by Hopeyoualldie — November 3, 2009 @ 3:13 pm
I believe the best “person” should be picked for whatever position is being applied for. Gender, race and religion should play no part in the decision. However, an individual must appreciate that certain jobs bring certain mentalities and these must be accepted before the position is taken. Know what the heat is before you go into the kitchen, and if you do not like it when you are there, get out.
Comment by Keith Miller — November 3, 2009 @ 3:18 pm
Why is it women can have thier own organizations along with latinos, blacks, asians, muslims, and any other minority. But when you find a group left with men in it some woman or minority starts a line of lawsuits until that individual gets in. Then in most cases a year or two later they leave? This world was created by MEN! We have invented, inspired, ruled, and died by the millions to protect our homelands. Pay attention to evolution and what Darwin learned. You can’t fight nature. It ALWAYS wins eventually.
Comment by MAN! — November 3, 2009 @ 3:20 pm
I DONT KNOW ABOUT ALL THE BS JUST SAID ABOVE………BUT I NEED THE HELL OUT OF WOMEN……….I WOULDNT BE GOING AROUND PISSING THEM OFF IF I WERE U GUYS……WHAT A BUNCH OF NIMRODS……AND I AM A MAN THAT WORKS WITH ALOT OF WOMEN AND HAVE NEVER HAD A COMPLAINT IN 20 YRS..IF THEY WERE SEXUALLY HARRASSING HERE…GUESS WHAT …ITS AGAINST EVERY WORKPLACE RULE AND LAW….SO GET OFF YOUR MAN HORSE , FIND OUT MORE DETAILS OF WHAT WENT ON AND THEN JUDGE……..REMEMBER ….EQUALITY……AND HEY..IM A SUPERVISOR OVER MANY WOMEN AND MEN……….AND IM ALSO A MANS MAN…..BUT IM ALSO CARING OF OTHERS AND U SHOULD BE………..NIMRODS
Comment by THE ROCK — November 3, 2009 @ 3:21 pm
Hopeyoualldie:
Do you celebrate Christmas, New Years, Birthdays, Anniversaries, Kwanzaa, Hanuka, or any other type of holiday or special event? Do you wish to abolish these traditions as well? Do these traditions hold us all back?
Comment by EW — November 3, 2009 @ 3:22 pm
You’re aware that your paltry attempt at a rebuttal still makes you look like an idiotic, whiny child, right?
Sexism is not a tradition, it is a disease.
Comment by Hopeyoualldie — November 3, 2009 @ 3:37 pm
I think THE ROCK is realy a dyke or a queer.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
HooRah EW!
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 3:45 pm
IM 6FT 1 AND I WEIGH 200 LBS AND CAN PROBABLY SLAP YOU LIKE THE LITTLE GIRL YOU ARE………..AND IM MARRIED AND HAVE 6 CHILDREN……..AND YOU ARE THE NIMROD I WAS SPEAKING OF………….PHURST YOU ARE A TRUE IDIOT THAT AT ANY GIVEN TIME YOU CAN COME SPEND A DAY WITH ME IN BEAUTIFUL OKLAHOMA…………ILL SHOW YOU HOW MUCH OF A DYKE I AM……..THE ROCK
Comment by THE ROCK — November 3, 2009 @ 3:49 pm
Hopeyoualldie,
Don’t be so angry. Your comments don’t exactly paint you in a complimentary light either.
Remember, choosing your words carefully can improve your health and well being. Calling yourself ‘Hopeyoualldie’ only invites critisism. Call yourself, I don’t know… ILoveEveryone and I bet you wouldn’t be so bitter.
Comment by Scott — November 3, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Hopeyoualldie
Your constant reference to me being a child is merely an attempt to shield yourself from your own feelings of inadequacy. You treat me like I’ve walked into your house, took off my pants, and shat in your stew. I’m afraid we are going to have to call this relationship quits. Hope you find a way out of your own self induced misery.
EW
Comment by EW — November 3, 2009 @ 4:01 pm
Seriously, harassment is harassment. You men that think it’s your world need to be commited to a mental institution. I am a pre-med/nursing major in college and I am going to be a doctor which is still considered more of a man’s job. No guy is going to beat me down and if they say I can’t do it, I will just prove them wrong. It’s a fact women are smarter and you’re just jealous that you don’t have boobs to play with. I am getting married soon, but I’d be damned if I would put up with anything that you all have posted putting women down coming out of my fiance’s mouth. We are a very traditional couple where it’s the mom’s job to cook and clean and to take care of the kids while it’s the fathers job to work and pay bills and so on, and we are very narrow minded people, but I will not put up with some a-hole trying to say a woman deserves it. If it was you, you would be singing a different tune. If some chick came over and grabbed you by the balls and you were comfortable with that, you would be reporting her. So you all need to take a hard look at your mothers and decide if you can tell, what you have said here about women, to her face. Behind every successful man there were strong women who fought for them, yet the women get little credit. That’s just the burden we have taken upon ourselves in order for you all to feel better about yourselfs and not have such low self esteem. We gave you life and we can take it away just as easily. So the next time you make such comments or you hear them, you better think of the women who helped those men and yourself get to where you are today. The mothers who looked after you, gave you food, clothed you and made sure you were cared for! I know there are exceptions because there are horrible moms out there, but still..most likely it was a female. It’s called respect..and as far as I’m concerned, we just decided to take a very long sabatical from doing the whole job thing since the hunter gathers…so tough titty!
Comment by Lisa — November 3, 2009 @ 4:03 pm
Both sex’s are equal. You people are all blind fighting over wich sex is the better one. Men and women equal each other out, I’m 5′4 and I find no shame if asking my male 6′4 friend to grab things from the top shelf when I need them. The fact that nobody can seem to accept that everyone is equal no matter what your sex or status is what causes ridiculious incidents such as the one with the Beefeaters. Both men and women leaving comments on this site saying “woman learn your proper place” and “men your dumber then women” are both acting sexist and ignorant. There are just as many women who sleep around and think with their genitilia as there are men. The only diffrence that is made between the two sex’s is the diffrences we have allowed society to make.
Comment by OmegaChez — November 3, 2009 @ 4:10 pm
Wow, really? This is like a buncha 7 year olds fighting about which sex is better. This must be a joke? BOTH SEXES NEED EACH OTHER. Its that simple, women and men are suited to do different things better. It doesnt matter who can can do more things better. I am in no way religious never been to church, but something made us the way we are for a reason and it has caused us to survive for all these years. If both sexes had been good gatherers cavemen would have died of lack of protein and an iron deficiency. Women are great, men are great, together they are an efficient procreatin machine, designed to perfection. I wonder how many of the people that posted are lesbian, sounded like a lotta crazy ladies.
Comment by Ossenkop — November 3, 2009 @ 4:32 pm
I am amazed at the vitriol being spread here. We can’t live in the past, only in the present and the present allows women to pursue jobs that have been traditionally men’s jobs. Too often territorial-ism raises its head. The Tower of London is not an employee’s personal fiefdom. Just remember to whom it belongs and that both men and women should have the opportunity to work there, doing their jobs without hindrance from anyone else. There is enough danger and chaos in this world without men and women turning on each other.
Comment by Deborah — November 3, 2009 @ 4:41 pm
So… Does anyone have anything nice to say about each other? Or about this issue? I love you all and respect your opinions very much. We should all have open minds and treat each other the way we want to be treated ourselves. Good for you all for speaking out!
Love,
Jamie
Comment by Jamie — November 3, 2009 @ 4:58 pm
Listen, Can we all agree that women are different than men? They are they have feelings and don’t like them treaded on. Look at women and their forends for a second. When two women are friends and one makes the other mad, they will stop talking to each other sometimes for months! Men don’t do that! I believe in women in the work force and think women bring a very needed roll to society. But listen the reason this is so out of hand is because of women like this one idiot! not all women! i know women in my work place that can throw back some of the stuff the men throw at her, without getting hurt! yeah whatever she gets a job in an al male organization then ios offended, given me a break I wish she would grow a backbone. People in todays society take things WAY to seriously! lighten up people and lets all get along.
Comment by milhouse — November 3, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
I grew up in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. Women burned their bras and screeched about equal rights. Now that I’m an old, tired hen I’m thinking that there are just some jobs that women shouldn’t get into. After working in a factory for 35 years and enjoying earning my own money and spending it on myself, I’m all busted up. Back, knees and hips are shot. Maybe getting married and taking care of one guy (don’t want children) wouldn’t have been so bad after all.
Comment by Stinky — November 3, 2009 @ 5:44 pm
I don’t have any problems with woman breaking the mold. However they all talk about being equal but soon as they come into a new work space, all they do is complain and cry harassment at the drop of a hat.
It is funny when men are harassed they work through it, when woman are, they cry discrimination. Some woman are selling themselves short and determined to be victims.
Comment by cyfi — November 3, 2009 @ 5:52 pm
I am completely shocked at most of the men that have posted. You are truly disgusting and should go back to the cave that you crawled out of.
Women, men will always think and act differently then you.
As far as the workplace goes; the job should always go to the most qualified. Race and gender should never matter.
Comment by Whoppe — November 3, 2009 @ 5:57 pm
I like comment #92
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
Oops, I mean #91
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
Whoope, you sound like the other hostile women on here pointing the finger at the men that posted. How about the rude comments from the closed minded (not all of you) women on here? It’s always me,me,me. How about looking in the mirror? How about being logical? Thanks…
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 6:04 pm
Phurst, I will agree that the close mindedness goes across the board. A lot of problems whether its in the workplace or home is because of “What about me?” line of thinking.
Comment by Whoppe — November 3, 2009 @ 6:14 pm
Woppe, Yes Maam! Agreed all the way.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 6:22 pm
i am a woman and I love it when men like “ihatebitches” say stupid things like this. Why? Because they prove every time how uneducated and unprepared they are. Thank god for woman or the men would have blown us all up by now. For every great man there is an even greater woman directing him!!!! Get a woman ihatebitches and she will save your sorry a** from making stupid comments like this one.
Comment by Jen — November 3, 2009 @ 6:26 pm
Jen,
I had an x-girlfriend that sounded like you, “it’s our job to train you, etc.” what bullshi*t. I found that I had no problems. Infact, sence I left her and her bullshi*t attitude I have gotten way further in life. Why don’t you spend half the time trying to fix men and start looking in the mirror. Its’ poeple like you that ruin relationships. You need a scyco-therapist you ignorant person.
Comment by Phurst — November 3, 2009 @ 6:33 pm
Who cares.
Comment by whocares — November 3, 2009 @ 6:34 pm
read her bio in WIWKI.
she is a payroll CLERK ! Guards should have a better background than that. I understand why the men are upset. This sounds like affirmative action, she was promoted just because she was a woman.
Comment by mungo — November 3, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
I have worked as a police officer for 15 years. If any of you have actually read the article, it talks about how her uniform was destroyed. This is not about who has a bigger set or who is better qualified. They made it so she could not perform her duty. In her position, a uniform is required.
It is not all women or men it is individuals who jump to conclusions and spout bull before they know what they are talking about. I recommend you take the time and educate your self before commenting.
Yes, there are women out there that will use their sex to get undeserved jobs. Time will weed them out. I have seen it and am glad for it. Others are very good at the jobs they do and can even handle some situations better because its not a matter of “who has the bigger muscle”.
Educate yourself!
Comment by time2read — November 3, 2009 @ 6:52 pm
Many of you are “skirting” around some important details here. This “woman” has served 22 years. Though that is admirable, it does not merit an appointment of this type. Likely, her time was spent as a non-combatant pencil pusher. Also consider, though this looks like a tour guide position, these gentlemen were initially well trained and trusted men at arms. In this day and age a gunman or terrorist could easily walk into the place and start taking hostages. Now who on the staff do you believe would be the first to get raped or used as a bargaining chip? The “woman”?
We can talk dandily about how great women are but the fact remains in a typical combat situation they cannot stand up to a man; period. This is another case where some woman or organization can’t stand the idea of an all-male grouping and just has to horn in and wreck it all. She couldn’t have simply joined up with any of the other services in and around the place that are co-ed. The “harassment” we are talking about is nothing compared to the level I have personally endured or carried out on someone else, as part of being the new man or lowest rank. She would find the same or worse treatment working in a union industrial facility.
In the end, this was a dumb stunt, they should have known better than to have broken with tradition, they should simply make her an offer to leave with some perk, and drive on. I suppose now this will become a platform for her self promotion into a public political office.
Comment by scsmit1 — November 3, 2009 @ 6:53 pm
Being an American, I know very little about the Beefeaters except for the Gin. My question is “Why did this woman want to be come a Beefeater. Was it to do something she fervently wanted to do or was it to end a male-only group?”
I remember, some time ago, a woman sports reporter went to court because the teams refused her admittance to the locker rooms after the games. She went to court and the teams were ordered to admit her. To this day, I do not think that any male sports reporter is permitted to enter the dressing room of a woman’s team after a game.
If women want to enter an “male” areas, then they should have any objections to allowing men into “female” areas.
Comment by Charles — November 3, 2009 @ 6:58 pm
Are all males juveniles? They have been having it easy for sooooo loooooong that they can’t bear to have women take over “their” jobs. It’s not immigrants, but women that have taken over your jobs, and you want to fight us? Bring it on!!!
That’s right: we can do your jobs better than you, and we are the makers of humankind…unbeatable combo really!
Comment by arona — November 3, 2009 @ 7:54 pm
I think this female Beefeater needs to chill out. Men treat each other like crap. Its just how they act. If she is taking on this role as the first female in a otherwise male role, she should suck it up. I have 3 daughters, and if they wanted to break into an all male job, then be prepared. Trust will be earned, not given.
Comment by hojo — November 3, 2009 @ 8:05 pm
i think all of u should read mr. c’s comment and shut the f**k up.
Comment by ihateallupeople — November 3, 2009 @ 8:36 pm
i think a lot of the dumbass male/female supremacists are going a little over the top here, what we are missing are the underlying problems think about it a woman enters an role traditionally reserved for males and somehow “GASP” she’s a lesbian! and it works the other way to, a guy tries to be sensitive and indiscriminate, or do things not considered “manly” he’s gay! come on people! women aren’t barbie dolls nor are men puppets on strings and they certainly aren’t gods either i mean lets face it folks there is no way to prove the existence of god one way or another wtf is the point of worshiping him anyway. And there’s no way of men or women, or women or men either way works! Face it ladies you cant have a kid without the ermm stuff… but this argument works both ways folks! Come on guys i mean how many things are there that you cant do on your own that your wonderful women take care of for you, that you take for GRANTED. I mean my dad cant even balance his own frigging checkbook, how sad is that? i dont care if you dont like the style of music, but try listening to Otep sometime! she’s a lesbian, but guess what? im a huge fan nonetheless do these things somehow change? and one more final note here: GUYS, do you know why women are filling male roles nowadays? Because YOU are to FRIGGING LAZY to get off YOUR STUBBORN ASS AND FACE THE WORLD!!!
Comment by Jay — November 3, 2009 @ 8:48 pm
@Kristine
Rock on ^^
Comment by Jay — November 3, 2009 @ 9:00 pm
http://strike-back.wetpaint.com/ anybody who agrees with me plz halp my site nd dont ruin it either
cuz its a wiki
Comment by Jay — November 3, 2009 @ 9:03 pm
SG you dickwad! I think you’re too blinded by your fervent “girl power” to see what I was saying. The Beefeaters are a storied part of English history of course they’re going to take exception to a woman in the ranks and she should have known she would not be welcome. I could care less what she or anybody wants to do with their life! if you want it go for it! but don’t cry because everybody treats you like sh!t when you force your way into a situation where you’re not welcome.
The other part of my post was a question, why is it every time there is a all male institution or club ect…. there is some women trying to sue to get in? and then acting surprised when she gets harassed. There are all kinds of women only institutions clubs etc…. and you don’t see men trying to sue to get in, maybe someone should and I bet he would be harassed by the women who don’t want him there! but then again he would probly be tough enough to handle it.
Comment by Tom — November 3, 2009 @ 9:06 pm
BEING AN AMERICAN AND A SOLDIER FROM AN ALL MALE DOMINATED UNIT(WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THIS UNIT AT ALL) I DONT NECCESSARILLY AGREE WITH IT, HOWEVER THIS IS THE TRUTH. THE BEEFEATER IN QUESTION HAS BEEN ALLOWED IN THE GROUP, THE DAMAGE IS DONE, THAT BEING THE BREAKING WITH A TRADITION THAT IS VERY OLD. THOSE OF YOU WHO COMMENTED ON THE QUEEN BEING FEMALE(DUH), REMEMBER, IN A MONARCHY, YOU ARE ROYALTY FIRST, GENDER SECOND, PERIOD. THAT ROLE WAS ORDAINED BY GOD HIMSELF. THE SUBJECTS OF ALL MONACHIES HAVE ALWAYS ACCEPTED THAT AS FACT. KNOW YOUR HISTORY BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON SUCH MATTERS. THE CURRENT SITUATION, IS CAN THIS FEMALE DO THIS “MANS” JOB. THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUSLY YES, SINCE SHE HAS BEEN DOING THE JOB SINCE 2007. GOOD FOR HER! SHE MET THE QUALIFACATIONS OF THE JOB AND RECIEVED HER APPOINTMENT, ALL HATERS GET OVER IT. THE MEN IN QUESTION PROBABLY DID HARRASS HER ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE EVEN FOR A MALE ROOKIE IN THAT POSITION. FOR SOME PEOPLE CHANGE IS ALMOST UNBEARABLE. THOSE PEOPLE WILL EVENTUALLY CAVE IN TO THE FACT THAT THINGS CAN NEVER RETURN TO THE WAY THEY WERE. IT JUST TAKES TIME. IN MY TIME I HAVE SEEN WHAT WOULD SEEM THE FRAILEST OF WOMEN BRAVE EXTREME COMBAT SITUATIONS AND WHAT WOULD SEEM THE HARDEST OF MEN CRUMBLE IN REAL COMBAT. IT REALLY IS IN HOW YOU DEAL, NOT JUST PHYSICALLY BUT MENTALLY AS WELL. WOMEN OR MEN, IT DOES NOT MATTER, IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO HANDLE A “JOB”, TAKE IT BECAUSE YOU WANT IT AND HAVE EARNED IT! DO NOT, HOWEVER, BE THE ONE THE TAKE A JOB SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE A MALE OR FEMALE DOMINATED PLACE, JUST TO STIR THINGS UP. IN MY LINE OF WORK PEOPLE(MEN AND WOMEN), DIE BECAUSE OF THAT ATTITUDE. I WOULD PROUDLY SERVE WITH ANYONE WHO HAS SHOWN THE ABILITY TO PERFORM THE NECCESSARY TASKES REQUIRED OF THAT PERSON. GOD BLESS ALL AND LEARN TO TOLERATE! ALL THINGS EVENTUALLY CHANGE. GREG (US ARMY RANGERS SSGT RET.)
Comment by GREG — November 3, 2009 @ 9:07 pm
I am reading these comments and I feel so much sorrow for the ignorance of so many. Males have for so long bullied women into what they have labeled “her place” and have devised all sorts of crafty ways to maintain this belief in their own minds.
This Lady did not just drop in, she was chosen as the best for the job. and…by the way…. this is a job. You males out there seen to see it that she forced her way into some sort of male social club….wrong…she was chosen for the job.
You males are saying…she should put up with it to prove she is equal…..Why????this is not a contest….this is a job and “putting” up with it (males doing and saying nasty things) is not in the job description.
At the end of the day this lady has already proven herself to be best of the best as shown by her time in the military (22 years). She was chosen for this job over five (5) men. Stop it you male hog vomit…shut up about “her place” and “breaking into an all male club” and “she should expect this” and “she should have a tougher skin”.
Stop it men else I promise you this..women will one day unite and you will find yourselves in a permanent dog house. No.. it will not be because we are all gay but rather sick and tired of the crap you carry around in your heads.
Comment by westindian — November 3, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
Who really cares about all these garbage, we have other issues in this world to worry about. Econolmy, jobs, wars, hunger etc…. All of you get over it.
Comment by Joe Smith — November 3, 2009 @ 9:56 pm
Thank You Greg for your very well stated comment. You are truly a gentleman who has the courage to let the small-minded people (who seem to be filling this comment section with their foul-mouthed gibberish) that their is equality in the Armed Forces. I come from a military family, and it was always engrained in my brothers and I that being a male or a female is not a reason to keep a person from persuing their ambition. The sad part about this woman having acheived part of her apparent career ambition is the fact that there were men already in the post that had failed to learn, in their formative years, about treating other individuals with the same respect that they would want to have shown to themselves. Therefore, if in fact they are punished for their deeds, then they deserve whatever the courts serve to them in retribution for their “boyish/ungentlemanly” attitudes to their female colleague.
Comment by Deb — November 3, 2009 @ 9:57 pm
Ok. I see a lot of bashing from both sides of the fence here. I will say this and only this: At no point in our long male dominated history and the future which is fast approaching a female dominated society ( I admit and welcome the change ), has anyone thought to try to be rid of double standards! Those that are on the side of women refuse to axcept or admit that some jobs are strictly for the men while some jobs are strictly for the women. I say this from a genetic and scientific point of view. Not every woman is born with the so called inate need to protect. Not every man is born with the inate urge to dominate and be the alpha. This world got screwed up the first time a man wanted to change into a woman and vice versa.
Comment by B — November 3, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
Just another self-serving egotistical female in severe need of attention without any other obvious means of getting it. Actually it’s kind of sad.
Comment by Ray — November 3, 2009 @ 10:25 pm
We really should be spending our care and concerns on more relevant topics. This is not an issue that needs to be discussed so much. Turn your anger and hatred of other into love!
Love,
Jamie
Comment by Jamie — November 3, 2009 @ 10:34 pm
It shouldnt matter of your gender it is what it is so that gave them no right to actually act like that what’s wrong with people?
Comment by RakaiiJ. — November 3, 2009 @ 11:00 pm
It’s Wrong
Comment by RakaiiJ. — November 3, 2009 @ 11:01 pm
A comment to Joe Smith:
“Who really cares about all these garbage, we have other issues in this world to worry about. Econolmy, jobs, wars, hunger etc…. All of you get over it.”
I don’t know if you are just as appalled at the quality of the posts and taking it out on everyone or are honestly telling others to not think about or discuss the ongoing descrepancy between the ideals of equity and the practice of social injustice to others based on their gender. The global economic crisis, political strife, and poverty are pressing matters to be sure, but even if the economy righted itself overnight-even if Osama Bin Laden turned himself in and renounced the jihad against the West, and everyone around the world had access to clean water and nutrient-rich food, we would still have to face that it is permissible on some social levels to interact with women in anything less than sweet deference and love. It has been a pressing matter and will continue to be until we remove the veil of separation between the sexes. We are one, and always have been.
She has every right to work and protect the Tower of London as any qualified individual should be. I teach physics and practice martial arts. My advisor in university was a woman. My sensei is a woman. I’m sure Ms Cameron is plenty capable of performing her role as a Beefeater. Unless it is as r d’amato suggests and she is a vegetarian.
Comment by mysogenistsmsuck — November 3, 2009 @ 11:03 pm
It is amazing how many ignorant people (including myself sometimes) get on here and rant and rave about how certain humans can excel with out other humans. If you idiots would realize that no one can excel without someone else to excel above or that none of us would exist without another person regardless of sex, gender, or race then maybe this world might have a good chance to survive with us. however at our current rate of self destruction none of us stand a chance of accomplishing much anyway.
Comment by agithinon — November 3, 2009 @ 11:06 pm
I csn see none of you feel that the LAW is on her side and if any one of you abuse the system get BURNED and punish. I been in a womans dominated jobs and I never had a problem with them and not because I was jumping them I was a friend. I wqorkrd for a Govrment Agency in Los Angeles County and we had training every year regarding this issue and it goes both ways a Female superior or a male superior can’t harrass. And the County does not want to pay MILLIONS on thse kind of law suits. I hope this woman gets a good LAWyer and gets enough money to shake the CROWN JEWELES
Comment by Jesse — November 3, 2009 @ 11:08 pm
The mentality of women wanting previously male-oriented jobs runs aground
with the feminist motto: ‘I CAN DO ANY JOB A MAN CAN DO BUT ALWAYS TREAT ME LIKE A LADY, BOYS’. If a male was being harassed (or should we call it being hazed) he would either take it or quit. No harassment charges would be filed in that case. No matter how rough women want it in the workplace (or anywhere else) they will always demand, in the last resort, to be ‘treated like a lady’ or, boys, I’m going to file a harassment complaint.
Comment by carlcarlyle — November 3, 2009 @ 11:10 pm
Just look at the smile on her face. Now she is happy!
Comment by CHARLES — November 3, 2009 @ 11:27 pm
Whoever said before that women were “made” to bear children, nurture, nest, or build families, I would like to respectifully condemn your theory to hell. Screw respectfully…I just say you are so wrong. I hate all those things previously mentioned, and hey, I’m going to avoid all of them, yes even bearning children. I’ve got better things to do then look after some undeserving man. Plus, females on the stronger sex. We have to bear so much more, both physically and emotionally, but to put it in more understandable terms for those narrowminded retards out there, I can kick the asses of many so called tough men out there, and tear them to shreds. Mean, yes I know, but they all had it coming. Do not make me angry. I do agree with some of the comments that say she should have just pushed back. I agree, to a certain extent. I personally would have just…hurt them…but to those less hearless then me with a less souless personality, perhaps a shove will just do. Still, if she files harassement, well you don’t get in legal trouble or have to dump a body and go into hiding when the murder investigation starts. I kid, sort of. I just think that women are equal and even better then men, and I’m not afraid of anything men throw at me. Just remember I’ll whip it back at them twice as hard.
Comment by dangerousthinker — November 3, 2009 @ 11:59 pm
time and time over and over women have become the blunt end of a stupid stick which is delivered by them selves. women in general have no common sence in how situations will turn out. they jump right in hoping nothing will happen and when something does it is allways the why me factor. because you are stupid and wanted to prove something. what just because you can bear children you are entitled. to what? not a damn thing the only reason men have spot in this world is because we got off our asses first and did someting to provide its not our fault your late. why don’t some of these women get off their butts and instead of whining and griping about entitlement they never earned to begin with get a 9 – 5 and start contributing or shut the hell up
Comment by same junk — November 4, 2009 @ 12:09 am
To any and all women who resort to stating that if it weren’t for women, men couldn’t exist:
What do you think would happen if all men were to suddenly lose any and all interest in women and kept it in their pants? That’s right, the entire human race would die out. You need us just as much as we need you.
That was so easy, almost like putting 1 and 1 together and getting 2 don’t you think?
Comment by Ezra — November 4, 2009 @ 12:46 am
As a British female i have to say that i personally dont like the idea of a female Beefeater…many times, people of other nations do not easily understand the intense sense of tradition still present in Great Britain, but, for those of us who are truly English, most of us believe the role of a Beefeater should remain as it always has, and males should be in those positions, not females….thanks for hearing my side of things….
Comment by BritGal — November 4, 2009 @ 1:07 am
I’m not sure why a nation that has had STRONG female national leaders (Queens, Prime Ministers, etc.) can still belittle other women in the workplace. @BritGal, traditionally, only men could be actors, let’s see how you’d like returning to that ‘intense sense of tradition.’
Please, God, let Margaret Thatcher come back and kick some ass.
Comment by NotABrit — November 4, 2009 @ 1:30 am
First off, don’t think for one minute that harassment only goes one way. I work in a predominately female profession. I am a male nurse. I was a paramedic for an ambulance service and decided I wanted to work in an ER. I hear it all the time from my female co-workers. From the doctors too, but mainly the female nurses. I knew what I was getting myself into and so was this lady when she wanted to join the ranks of the Beefeaters. She made her bed now she needs to shut up and lie in it.
Why does it seem that most women who wave the “We want equal rights” flags only want it when it applies to them? They have allowed women into the mens locker rooms, but they would cry harassment if one of the players came out of a shower without a towel. Do you think you will ever see men in the womens locker rooms? Never! Girls cannot be excluded from joining the Boy (the operative word here being BOY) Scouts but boys can’t join the Girl Scouts. And high school girls can join the Football and Wrestling teams but boys can’t join the Volleyball team.
With equal rights comes equal responsibilities and equal rules. If special conditions have to be made then it isn’t very equal is it?
Comment by Jeff — November 4, 2009 @ 1:51 am
what a waste of time all of you go to do somethin productive with your lifes.
Comment by ching you ss — November 4, 2009 @ 2:02 am
God said women must be subservient to men. We rule. Women reproduce, feed children, raise them and cook for us men. God told us how to live. Women should remain silent in church and defer to the husbands.
Roger Francis
Bartlesville, Oklahoma USA
Comment by Roger Francis — November 4, 2009 @ 2:33 am
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)
Comment by Roger Francis — November 4, 2009 @ 2:35 am
“Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:24)
Comment by Roger Francis — November 4, 2009 @ 2:36 am
this whole thing is sad. I worked for one of the big 3 auto companies, and when i applied they put me in a position that was totally and completely male. Always had been. I did not ask to be there, did not request the job they put me on, i simply wanted to work. Hell, i did not even notice i was the only woman in the department for 3 days, i was to busy learning my job. It was only when someone pointed it out to me that i became aware of the fact that i was not only not wanted by most there, but they were determined to get rid of me before i could get my 90 days in. And believe me they tried. The job was heavy lifting all day long. i was young, strong, and had a good work ethic from my parents. i was raised in a large family (5 girls, 4 boys) there were no “his job” “her job” at our home. That’t just not how i was raised. I did not ask the men to change their ways simply because i was there. I did not ask them to change the way they talked, the jokes they told, or the comments they made about each other or about the woman in the other departments. I was not their to “win t heir approval” i was there to do the job i got paid to do. Yes i took ALOT of flack from a lot of the men there. But eventually they saw i was not going to sit back and ask them to do my work for me, i was not going to whine and cry and say i can’t do that when asked to do the same jobs they were doing. I got dirty, i got sore muscles…i lifted 90 pound A frames when that is what i needed to do, i climbed racks and pulled boxes…and when they needed help with something i was the first one there to help them if i had time from my own job to do so. Did i get comments and sexual inuendo’s from time to time….hell yes. for most part in one ear and out the other. When i got to the point though with one co worker i could not handle his comments anymore..i went to HIM with my complaints…not my boss, not my union. The problem was between he and i …i thought only fair to try to settle it there first. Lucky for me that worked. i was told by my supervisor i would not get my 90 days in…when no one else was around of course. Eventually they realized i was not a threat to their “he man” club…i did not want to change things, i did not want to be given special treatment. And i can honestly say that i won over 95% of the people in that department (there were about 250 men …and me) When i left there they made it a point to tell me they were sorry to see me go…many hugged me and told me they owed me an apology for the way they treated me when i first came. For me the one who i found the most insulting the whole time i was there …another woman who wanted in the department…and actually asked me who i “slept with to get this job”. That was the one time i truly wanted to slap another employee. Sadly eventually she did get in the department..and seh was everything they feared i would be. She was lazy,, she whined every time she had to do heavy lifting (what did she think she would be doing in a material storage department) and when she had to work out in the rain, picking up those A frames, and pallets…OMG you would think the world was coming to an end. I earned my way up to the better job there…and all the men i worked with knew that. The “boys” well they were the ones who still cried after 13 years that i had no business there, that i was “taking jobs from those with families to support” and just there to look for a husband. I loved my job and was sorry when the time came that i had to leave. But i will always stand by my right to have the job…as long as i was willing to come in and do the job the way it was ment to be done…living by the same rules as anyone else who was put in the job and not ask for special treatment. Were there some parts of the job i needed help with. Sure i will admit to that, but not because i was female but because some things just require 2 people. But i did not ask for help if there was any way i could do it alone.
Comment by Jo — November 4, 2009 @ 2:39 am
Look, I read all the comments above… A fraternal order is what it is for a reason… Sure anytime a woman sees that she says to herself she could do that… I have no problem with that… Every time and I mean EVERY TIME a woman takes a highly recognized fraternal job she screws it up… Not for any other reason then this…
THE JOB WAS MADE FOR A MAN TO FILL… With a woman in a position designed for a man there will forever be problems… After all there aren’t very many women who use men’s deoderant or for that matter men’s cologne… That’s not to say some don’t break the mold… But anytime a woman joins a fraternal organization, SHE BREAKS THE ORGANIZATION… I am not wrong… But every woman who reads this WILL say I am… CHECK ladies…
Comment by Really Please — November 4, 2009 @ 3:08 am
I would first say that until we hear some specifics in this case, we have no true insight, lets not judge too hastily, one one hand, the alleged harrassment could be a few fart jokes or harmless juvenile humor, and that scenario makes me ask “what steps were taken to address it” on the other hand, it could be pornographic photos being taped to her locker, etc… So before pretending to know the score, I myself will reserve judgement until I hear more facts about this case.
That being said, I have worked on union construction sites where there are several independant unions and companies on site all working at the same time. I heard the pipefitter’s foreman warn his crew that a woman was being transferred to their crew over a harrassment complaint she filed, he did not provide any specifics, but warned the entire crew to “mind their P’s and Q’s” and not to ask the woman for any details involving her complaint. As I was not on their crew or even in the same union, I got around to asking her about her harassment complaint after about 2 weeks. She told me she filed a complaint with her union for only one reason, “the foreman was always making me carry everything back and forth to the site.” When I said “You’re an apprentice….THATS WHAT APPRENTICES DO.” She shrugged and said “Not this apprentice.” They get extra points points on their application for not being male, and thats done in the interest of FAIRNESS.
Comment by minneapolis man — November 4, 2009 @ 3:21 am
ok if there is harrasment oh well she should take it and not make a spectcal of herself and the job if there should be punishment suspend the people doing the harrasment and the one that is looking for the cameras and to change a job for there own sake.I dont have problems with women or there jobs that they take but dont go and change it or b*tch to the media about it.All it will do is bring more heat down on ya and it will never change or get anybetter.Prove that u have the ball that they do and suck it up and return the harrasment since most men wont yell harrasment when a women does it to them.Likei said before be fair and suspend them both if what everyone is saying she is a big women and has strong skin then this media circus would never have happened.So in fairness suspend everyone involved the men and the woman. Equality is what all u women b*tch about so if u cant take the harrasment and return it and what the world to know u r being harrased maybe u should let the world know u r ready to be punished like the men for starting the media circus.Oh yea and if u think i am being rude to women i aint.I aint saying women need to stick to a women job and a man the same i work at a florist with all women plus i am getting married next year to a women i have been with for six years. So yea suck it up and dont b*tch.
Comment by Gary — November 4, 2009 @ 4:19 am
Hi everybody,
I read some of the comments that are posted, and I must say that a lot of you have some really strong feelings about men and women. However, in my opinion the whole situation boils down to a lack of respect. We are not children, we are adults and should behave thusly. Anyone, man or woman, can do a job, anyjob, if he or she trains hard enough for it. It’s not about whether or not she can do the job she was assigned to do, it is about respect. Not merely respect for her as a woman, but respect for her as a human being. Women are not stronger than men, nor are they equal to men. Men and women are different, we are equal only in one aspect, we are all human beings. Our emotional makeups are different, and so are certain key aspects of our anotomy. But that aside, if this lady was not qualified for the job she would not have been hired to do it. In the same light, if the men she works with were not qualified to do their jobs they would not be there; however, if they had been practicing the very novel idea af respecting each other as colleagues then when a woman joined the ranks it would have been easier for them to extend to her the same repect regardless of the fact that she is a woman. That is all it comes down to, where exactly is the respect for self and colleague that should be present and foremost in the work environment?
Comment by Ella — November 4, 2009 @ 4:22 am
Comment 133 by jeff I like the point you raise about equal means equal. kind of a down to earth lets keep it real view.
Um anora (comment 107), Sunny Dale is on the way with a padded wagon, just stay put. And yes they have sedatives. You did not create mankind GOD did(sorry darwin) and furthermore you cant without the seed, anora that would be men. There are jobs women can do and well I might add, but lets keep this realistic. With the exception of some of the women who posted earlier in the debate and women like them, the average women cannot do every single job a man does better than a man, this not the 10th grade calm down. Some jobs require not only strength but endurance, and the female frame is not designed to take that type of punishment day in and day out. Some do it anyway and end up paying for it worse than men when they start to age. Ive done a lot of in my day and worked with some damn good women, I did not harass them(which is why they liked me,brownie points with the ladies fellas is a good thing plus im good looking) we worked well together. For some reason there was an understanding from serving in the Marines to factory work to retail we always seem to work together. Where there was lack the other picked up.
It becomes a problem when you cant hold your end of the bargin, then it becomes a bigger issue if a tradition is broken or special rules are made, then, once you throw in some off colored comments sexuall or whatever, well thats when we get the war we currently have. Posting after posting who’s better blah blah blah.
If we govern our own behaviors which may require some thinking(God forbid) these issues would drop off. Here we go ladies. So why is it that girls can join the boy scouts but not the other way around and why does a woman want to go into a mens locker room for a story but men cant do the same, Im not arguing just asking for some of the women to think it through, seriously.
Now for us guys. Fellas how many men have not stayed with the women to help with the child they helped produce? Maybe some women are going after jobs they deam as decent pay or job security to take care of the kids. Id rather them work with me than be in my pocket getting help from the GOV. Does it truly bother you if a woman is driving a forklift on 2nd shift with you?If it does why?
Women, why do men change who they are and what they say when you walk in the room, is it because they dont want be fired because you may be offended? So ladies in what was once an all male work place for whatever reason, men will be offended by your presence, how can you as women in a traditionally male role help the situation? I can tell you I have had some things said to me by women that I would been fired for had I said them. Women have become more ambitious and agressive as they take on more responsibility and as a result should be looking work with not against to smooth out our gender issues, because though some are warranted many harassment claims really are bs, which does not help this transition we are going through. Someone earlier said a short skirt does’nt mean she is asking for it I AGREE!, however men are for the most part driven by sight(sexually)women you know that, which is why when attention is desired by a particular male you dress to get said attention. So why would you dress in a way that will get you unwanted attention when clearly you know it is highly probable. Unless you have’nt any mirrors you know what you look like when you leave for work. I ve taught my daughter not to dress like that at a young age and now at 16 she hates it when she sees women put themselves out there. She is concerned with a boy’s GPA more than his eyes or muscle.(I once witnessed her in school tell a boy gawking at her that she was not a menu and not look at her as if his was going to place an order. Thats daddy’s girl she dont play I taught her that) she thinks women are far more than t/a and for some men unless you cover it up they wont know what you are really capable of nor will they care. So no women are not asking for it, but dont dress like you’re offering and then screem harassment. Anyway people just wanted say if we on both sides think it through (why do i want this job as a women? why does it bother me that she works here as a man? why do i dress like this? etc) some of this drama will go away. Peace
Eric
veteren USMC
Comment by Eric — November 4, 2009 @ 2:20 pm
Guteb Tag Ich haise Goga
Comment by noigeothego — November 7, 2009 @ 3:43 pm
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